E29 - Raghavan Chellappan Chief Technology Officer ByteSafe
Raghavan_Chellappan
41:40
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
privacy, people, data, technology, Raghavan, organization, problem, impacts, businesses, true, individual, issue, good, share, building, absolutely, first amendment, podcast, companies, security
SPEAKERS
Debbie Reynolds, Raghavan Chellappan
Debbie Reynolds 00:00
Personal views and opinions expressed by our podcast guests are their own and are not legal advice or official statements by their organizations. Hello, my name is Debbie Reynolds, and this is "The Data Diva" Privacy podcast, where we discuss privacy issues with industry leaders around the world with information that businesses need to know now. Today, I'm very happy to have a special, very special guest, Raghavan Chellappan, correct?
Raghavan Chellappan 00:36
Absolutely right, Raghavan Chellappan, you got it right.
Debbie Reynolds 00:40
I try to make sure I pronounce people's names right.
Raghavan Chellappan 00:46
You're doing perfectly fine.
Debbie Reynolds 00:48
So Raghavan is the Chief Technology Officer of ByteSafe out of the DC area; actually, he has done so many different things with technology. I'm actually happy to have you on the show. You're the first Chief Technology Officer I have. So I'm going to put you in the hot seat because I know very well sort of, you know, the scope and breadth of your job and some of the things that you're working on. So a couple of things about Raghavan has he established a data strategy and team functions at clients to advance operational and strategic analytics and competitive information, informative strategy. He successfully managed and deliver large-scale IT transformation programs and providing businesses or companies across multiple industries, develop best practices supporting quality data, certification, data visualization as internal Alliance management for a community of practice. And a digital strategist, which I love at work, who's authored and co-authored several white papers, articles on emerging technologies, digital transformation, artificial intelligence, big data, machine learning, Internet of Things, user experience, and blockchain. What did I leave out?
Raghavan Chellappan 02:18
You covered everything. I don't even have to say anything. You're so good. Like, you're thorough, like I think like, looks like you did all the due diligence work, which is amazing. That's awesome.
Debbie Reynolds 02:30
Well, I'm very, I have a good researcher, so researchers on my team, and they were very impressed with what you do. Those are just big words. Those are really half the things that you are able to accomplish for organizations. So before we, I guess the first thing I want to talk about is sort of how we met. So you and I connected on LinkedIn, we sort of support each other's contacts, he'll, you know, make a comment or make a comment or whatever. And you contacted us like, hey, you know, can you be on my podcast? I thought, oh yes, it totally makes sense. So I was happy that you contacted me. Because I think someone in your role, you have some sort of a bird's eye view, what's happening within technology, not only your organization but what you're seeing in terms of trends coming out. Also, in addition to your technology work, obviously, you touch upon privacy. So I would love to get your thoughts on it. If I left out something about your introduction, please fill it in. But I want to get your thoughts on what are the most pressing issues you think there are today in privacy and possibly technology?
03:55
Absolutely. Debbie, thank you very much for the introduction. And thank you so much, Debbie, for having me on your podcast. And as you know, it is wonderful to be on your show. And I'm so happy that we are able to connect today—time to speak. And yes, you're correct. Like we connected on LinkedIn and have been trading messengers back and forth for some time now. And it is great to talk with you. One of the things, as you know, the podcast world has exploded—lately and especially with the impacts of the global pandemic. And podcasts have become a good medium for sharing messages locally and globally. Right. So this is something very interesting. I really, as we were chatting earlier, I admired some of the things you're doing, you're making everybody inclusive, and there are several things we could definitely chat up, and we can discuss when it comes to what to say, like privacy, and I would kind of like blended like privacy is very important today. And it has become its own discipline, and how we all can bring more awareness. And as we chat and talk through, you will probably get more things. Yes, currently like I'm the co-founder, and CTO of a Washington DC-based Data Privacy and security services tech startup, called ByteSafe. And which provides next-generation privacy and compliance management solutions, mostly powered using AI and artificial intelligence, and ML technologies. And one of our focuses just is to help the industry, which you also do, right like and then to navigate, help them navigate privacy and compliance issues and security issues related to emerging technologies. And the current focus has been to support and help organizations successfully manage these privacy risks and protect their data. And as we continue, I do have a few things right now, like the topic of 2021 has always been that Cybersecurity, and Data Privacy, and it's been the hot topic, and how privacy kind of like matters which emerging technologies. And as we are discussing these days, privacy has become a discipline of its own. It's no longer just a part of compliance, legal, or auditing. So I would like to share some of my views and listen to some of your thoughts. Yeah, privacy does matter. And in this current, like a rapidly growing standalone discipline, probably we all can make a difference and bring more awareness, as we also build technology products, right?
Debbie Reynolds 06:43
I feel like privacy impacts, everyone. So it's something where everyone needs to be part of a conversation, you know, I feel like, especially like, sort of legal and technology, they sort of grown up in silos, right. And then we all sort of reach across a silo, if something happens, you know, like, we have to collaborate together. And I feel like privacy is a situation where it just does not work unless you have that collaboration. So I'm hoping that you know, people in the privacy profession or people, you know, like you who sort of wear multiple hats, you're reaching across to really have those open conversations with people at all levels of the organization, because as you know, you're only as strong as the weakest link. Right?
Raghavan Chellappan 07:35
My wife and I love that weakest link show.
Debbie Reynolds 07:40
Yeah, but I mean, I think being able to have everyone understand, and everyone has skin in the game, right? And everyone needs to be a part of the solution. And the files don't help. You know, I feel like maybe we've talked about this, like cybercrime or cyber hacks or phishing. So yeah, a lot of phishing attacks take advantage of the fact that they know companies operate in silos, so they can send an invoice to accounting, and the person is afraid to talk to someone at another level in a different organization in a different department about whether something's authorized, they're basically taking advantage of a dysfunctional situation within organizations. So what are your thoughts about kind of phishing and privacy and things like that?
Raghavan Chellappan 08:29
It's very true, right? Phishing has become a major issue. And not many people even know that like that they're being like, hacked into attacked or they are going through an issue. And as you know, there are spying eyes everywhere. And now, with artificial intelligence and machine learning, and deep learning, another big problem we all facing is now they also have their own brains. We have given them the brain with our algorithms and everything that we are building with them. And those security cameras, even at workplaces, you are monitored 24 by seven and 365 days and especially more. So, in this current data pandemic. You are always like on a stage where people are watching you. And these are some of the things which everybody has got to understand. And two things like what actually comes to my mind is more so globally. Privacy has traditionally been seen as a matter of least concern with everyone just doling out their like personal sensitive information, without much consideration to ramifications even at like workplaces. What data you collect, how we assure could be for HR purposes, or it could be for any reason, but all these habits and everything has been collected as long as you get consent. You get the how the right measures? These are all like, good practices, right? We all have to do that. And if you don't, then what's the point in like, just adapting or adopting the technology, and not practicing good hygiene?
Debbie Reynolds 10:14
So what do you think about privacy? You know, for someone in your position, obviously, you're working with people, and you're trying to educate them about, you know, not only having technology measures in place, but like, human measures in place, protect their data. But do you feel like some people like maybe their bad habits and protecting their data and their personal life sort of spill into work or vice versa?
Raghavan Chellappan 10:44
It does, right? Like a lot of people, it's similar to right, like when you say, like, I'm even like programming or anything you start, you have to have best practices in place, whether you truly want to, like, follow or try to improve on that. And what I actually like, share with like people, or convey some of the things that which I do is, hey, currently, Data Privacy is more than like a just a bunch of legal compliance and standards, and requirements. So this is the biggest challenge everybody has got. So we have a lot of unanswered questions in those areas, which we know that why should be data privacy matter for businesses is a very critical question everybody asks, right. And while you are, and then it starts with, not only from the top down and bottom up in any organization, everybody has got a bit too, as you're being like saying, right, like, it's got to be inclusive, it has to be collaborative, and how we apply and also have to understand build the data collected, how it's going to be used in the future, what are the impacts? Only when you discuss, then can we come up with some kind of an approach or solution for that?
Debbie Reynolds 12:02
Yeah, you brought it up. I think we were talking before the show. We actually talked about it quite a bit before the show. So hopefully, we can get this into the show. But you're talking about trust. So I feel like trust is such a central issue. I think when a lot of the privacy regulations started to come out, people were really afraid. Really, no one was really thinking about privacy until the GDPR came out. And they had a big fine, right. So that sort of elevated privacy to C Suite, in terms of issue. And now because some of the places or some of the countries, maybe they're not finding people enough or fast enough, some people are sort of, you know, getting a little weary about that. But what I'm seeing and you know, this goes again, back to what you're saying about trust is that consumers are getting savvier, they're, you know, whether it's business to business or business consumer, they don't want to do business with companies that they do not trust. So talk to me a little bit about the trust factor and why that's important to businesses.
Raghavan Chellappan 13:13
See, in the digital era, right? Like everything has become a transaction. When you look at it as anything, for example, you have to see data as a public good. I'm going to give a different twist to it. And you have to say data, also becoming a public good, like air and water. I always use this analogy. And I want to share that with you. Probably even the audience will very well connect, right. So when you look at what needs to be managed, have a privacy policy in place. That respects the idea that data is public. Just because like data, like air and water, belongs to everyone as a public good. It doesn't mean that anyone is allowed to pollute the resource. Okay. Eventually, what I see is these resources, and common goods become contaminated, then they become unusable for individuals. That's where the trust factor comes into place. The trust factor is like you have to build that embedded within your, whatever product you're selling or whatever you're developing. The consumers have to feel good. That's the most important thing, right? Like olden days, like when you look at it at telecom service, you're buying some product, it could be just your landline telephone line or Internet services. The customer was number one. They always treated them well. The trust factor why they went as I worked at AT&T, and why people love AT&T was mainly because their customer service was not only good, they valued their customer, and the trust factor was built as part of they're building their services. So nowadays, with most of these technology-driven companies, that part is totally lost. They are collecting data. They don't know how they are being used. They are not transparent, sharing with any of their consumers. And, for example, you go to any site, online site, the first thing, they ask you a bunch of details, you fill out the details, yes, you have to provide details for you to use their services or the platform. But how is the data being used? Am I really interested? What do you do, and all these follow-ups are more intrusive? For me, that's where people or businesses are losing that trust factor. So we have to really believe we are working on that as part of our services we are offering, building a trust factor. That's what the typical goal is.
Debbie Reynolds 15:58
Yeah. Another reason why I was really interested in having this conversation with you is that I feel like people in your role have the hardest job I can imagine in organizations because you have it coming from all sides, you're defending, you're educating people inside, you're working with them on technology, there's a human factor, right, with communicating that within the organization. You're dealing with outsider threats, insider threats. So tell me what what is kind of the most challenging thing that you're you've encountered? Just not just privacy, but just sort of cyber issues? Like what keeps you up at night right now?
Raghavan Chellappan 16:44
See, the first thing is awareness. See, a lot of people do not really clearly understand there are different sets between security, privacy, and how most of them only like, think about once an attack has already happened. So data breaches, for example, take the recent one, the SolarWinds, how did they really, still there are no answers. And everybody is like fighting to fire up. And then Microsoft, like Active Directory, was hacked into. That's the way they got into your systems. But more so, if you look at most of these things, what keeps me really awake late at night as people not first thing understanding. And then the best practices, even development-wise or technology when you're implementing, are not doing some of the key due diligence factors. So that part is why we are on the stage. How did we even get here is alarming. Right? Like the olden days, your data was all like test data. And here you're playing with the live data, even like when you are building products. And I can categorize it into three different areas, three major players for not just for privacy for any new products or tools, right? The individuals, businesses, and government, all of them, have to play together here. Right? They all make a big difference. And for me, we are I compared my privacy as the health. Why I say, that is yes, data is actually the blood. And it supports more so and that yeah, it is the new gold and everything. That's true. But once your privacy is lost, you are basically carrying an illness, right. And it's a different form of the disease. Correct? Right? No, that's like you can see that inappropriate use of the data and who is got access to it, how it's been used? And what are they mining? What are the purposes, being transparent with users, or the consumers make goes a long way? For me. I want to see it like what is a treatment? Loss of privacy is like an illness, once you lose your identity, right? It's very hard to recover. Recovery of like privacy and identity is a major issue. That's what really keeps me awake. Most of our things about like how people are viewing it, and then maintaining your privacy is like maintaining your health. To be honest, I mean, that's a great comparison, why elders do that. Once your privacy has been violated. It's like having a chronic illness.
Debbie Reynolds 19:36
That's really I love that analogy. Yeah. Right. Yeah, right. Right. So you're just, so I guess right now, people on the surface, if he used the analogy of a chronic illness, we're kind of just treating the symptoms right now. We're not really trying to eradicate the disease. So I think we want to get down to the nitty-gritty, right?
Raghavan Chellappan 19:57
Absolutely right, like, and once you're done diagnosed, right? Like normally, when you look at, hey, you're diagnosed with heart disease or diabetes, there is no going back, right? So you're constantly on the lookout. And all you can do is it's not like going back to how we manage the situation. Yeah, we are also in a very similar stage when it comes to privacy are not the security itself, if you look at it. So, for me, I kind of like see that like, first thing don't get infected, right? Unfortunately, we all have been infected with privacy sickness or security, Cybersecurity, wisely, security sickness. And what we are trying to do is more of a postdoc, right. And we are all looking for a vaccine. Now, the analogy that you see that with the COVID, and everything, you're looking for vaccines, right? That's the way I kind of like always. When I explained, I also tried to say, hey, we are looking for a vaccine to inoculate ourselves from the fallout, right? And then the vaccine actually doesn't work because of privacy laws, just like how a vaccine functions, okay? It's not like one time you take one shot. You're done. Where, like a flu shot, right? Like, why do you take like, on a regular basis, every year? And you it's not just because like you're protecting yourself, you're, you have to do that those are all like, best practice measures that you take. Very similar to that. I kind of like to see that society has got to start, like seeing viewing it differently when it comes to handling these things. And as you know, like, right now, a lot of people to just to segue a little bit. There is no true solution to stopping this privacy or security issue. You know, this, I know this, a lot of people know that. Yeah, the only thing we could do is come up with, like measures to make sure that like the can handle the situation before something happens or attack or anything happens. So that's where the responsibility falls into all three people, individuals. Be aware, be sure that like what you're doing, when you're doling out information to all this, like public domain. That's very hard, right? Like, once your information is there, you're lost. A lot of people consider it fame. It's my first freedom of speech first amendment, right? They missed one thing that you're exercising your personal want to say, right, but at the same time, once you throw it out there, it's out there, people can use it, right. And if you see it, like, it's not like activism, or an event, or even a protester or somebody in the street, standing and like yelling or shouting on a particular topic, it's open to everyone, right? Just a passer-by, or anybody who's there, he listens. He can use the information any way they want. And, you know, this, like there's a Ninth Circuit court come out, and kind of like said that, like, no as Clearview AI, saying the First Amendment rights like we are collecting data, the public scraping of information and data is nothing wrong with that. Yeah, but do you really agree? I want to ask this question to you and get your thoughts. Do you really agree with that?
Debbie Reynolds 23:41
That's a good question. No, I don't. Well, I don't think it is a First Amendment right. Because in my opinion, maybe someone disagrees with me, a business is not a person. So I feel like that right is supposed to be related to a person and also a person in terms of how the government sees their free speech, not a private company or private citizens in that way. Yeah, but the loophole is, if someone says Clearview AI does have a First Amendment right, the right to scrape data, then what about my rights as an individual? So I don't have a first, So first, I'm in the First Amendment about speech. Right? One of my speeches that I don't want my data taken doesn't really connect in First Amendment. But the gap is that because privacy is not a fundamental human right in the US, correct is a loophole that they're taking advantage of. So there it is if Clearview AI says that or if a court says that's their first amendment right, then I have no counter right to that. So that means that their rights supersede my individual rights.
Raghavan Chellappan 25:05
Exactly right. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm total with you on this right. Like, I know a couple of days ago you posted like our the Maryland taxation, right like ads targeted ads. I'm not saying they should not tax, but this is where the regulator's it's like a find writes to me. And form it is a fine finding, and people are almost always big tax, right? They always see this like, oh, okay, let us like pay the fine and then move on. By that habit. How do you control that? That's what the major call issue is here. Right. I kind of like to see that. That's, that's why I kind of like posted like a response to hearing a thing. Saying that, hey, don't you think that this is kind of a conflict of interest? Like classic? Now you came and gave a great answer. I'll allow the answer. To hey, the government's got to be like, make some money revenue. True. Yeah, how they're using it. That's a very important piece. Like I was like thinking, you know, if the regulators are going to like, play that game. Most of these big Tech's they'll say like, you know, what, I will target more, sell more. Yeah, the point, like a lot of people, is made. It could be data brokers. In the end, it's going to be passed on to the customer, right? And who is going to really pay that money?
Debbie Reynolds 26:30
That's true.
Raghavan Chellappan 26:32
Well, I want to see like, what do you feel like on that, too? I know, like, going back and forth. I'm, I love asking some good questions to you. And ping, you pick your brain so that I can learn?
Debbie Reynolds 26:42
Yeah, so that's interesting. To me, it's just fascinating. So in a way, it is sort of like a fine, right? If you say, you pay, you're gonna pay, you know, 10%, or whatever, for advertising. The problem is I sort of leased the individual out. So exactly, companies are using us and our data to make money in the state of Maryland saying, you know, because you make money off of the people who live here, I'm going to tax you. So you got to pay money to the government. But it doesn't do anything for me as an individual. So I think at some point that the data monetization conversation will end up people say, why is the tech, the tech companies can pay the state a tax? Why can't they pay me for the data that I give them for free?
Raghavan Chellappan 27:32
Yeah. And this guy, kind of like interesting. Mutual contract on probably, you know, this, there used to be a company named like humanity, CO, I think their focus was like a build a platform where if somebody is using your data, you had got to pay for them. At least a company should pay for them. But for me, that's a good model. That's not a bad model. But how many people really benefit out from it? Right? That's me, my focus. I love to see that see globally, right. Like, across nations, it does not apply across continents, across nations. Everybody has become a number theory.
Debbie Reynolds 28:12
Absolutely.
Raghavan Chellappan 28:13
It's very, very hard, like, like a Social Security number, which is very sacred to an individual. But right now, that's the stage where we are everybody has got some kind of a citizen number. Right? When you have that, right, like, once that is in place, you're the government, did they have huge databases for that? Right? And your information automatically becomes open to the public.
Debbie Reynolds 28:37
It's true.
Raghavan Chellappan 28:39
So and it is prone to hacking, right? Everybody knows that, like the government databases around the globe, to me, are notoriously loose. Oh, absolutely. I wish they had good practices, good things in place. For some reason, yes, they do have it. But what are they protecting? This is the reason I got categorized or bucketed them into three areas. Individuals take responsibilities, disperses. You are more responsible because you are building the platform. Right? You are housing. Those are hosting that information and data. Don't bring like cloud Oh, we are using other third-party tools and other things. You have to understand that you are housing them. So you have to it's like this, right? Like, treat them if you are bringing a guest, you're inviting someone to use your stay in your house, or you have to treat them well. So if you do not, then you have to answer some questions. You are saying that, like why my data is being compromised. It's not like we're putting value right like money; every data is everybody's data has important value. But here, that's the issue. Like, I kind of like see all this in SolarWinds going back to that. We really don't know what the repercussions are? Right. What Other ramifications? For us? Is it like an algorithm is programming or a technology issue? Or what really it is like not many people are able to clearly come out and answer that question. When I see that as a major issue, that's why I think privacy is compromised. And that is a very key component. Everybody should be involved, right? I just want to be the tool developer and other areas.
Debbie Reynolds 30:29
What if you had one thing that you could share with businesses about, you know, privacy, or data or Cybersecurity? What will be the thing that you think would sort of help them understand this problem?
Raghavan Chellappan 30:44
I would say start with accountability and take responsibility. If these two things, and then gradually you move towards I know, like, recently, you also share, hey, this is a good one, an article that I wrote, and which was like, published and another person also picked it up—so saying that why we need a systemic change. It's not that you have to dismantle everything globally. Now, have you heard about the paper? Or like the tragedy of comments written by Garrett Hardin? No, no. Okay, this is like, actually, for a population problem. He was trying to come up with, like, some of the ideas do a while, and actually, a few years back, my wife shared that with me. Hey, you should read this. It's for the public good. That's why I say data is for the public good for the common good. So the issue, what he was trying to do is kind of like solve as like a population problem has no technical solution, it requires a fundamental extension. And very, we are in the same very similar stage. Right? Privacy problem truly does not have only a technical solution. Right, it requires a fundamental change. That's why I kind of like saying that, like a, it needs a systemic change, that's right have to look at security also falls into that category. So more so than if you get a chance, you should like, or if you are okay, I'll share that with you. I don't look for things like that. Maybe you will. You will appreciate that. Why the person
Debbie Reynolds 32:24
I agree with you. So the three things you say that are critically important are the idea that there needs to be more of a systemic approach, or as opposed to a tactical approach both the Cybersecurity and Data Privacy, and that there has to be accountability and responsibility. So it can't be like, oh, my God, I, I have my stuff in the cloud. And I didn't know what to do is like you, if you're gonna, even if your stuff is in the cloud, you're still accountable for it, you know, the company is providing you the service, whether you're you have to drive the bus, right, you have to, you are responsible for the security of your data, the cloud or was misconfigured or, you know, if people in your organization are sharing path or as well as stuff, so there has to be accountability there, right. And accountability is top to bottom type thing. So definitely, you want to lead. The tone at the top has to be one of accountability and one of sort of a systemic idea about what Cybersecurity and privacy should be. And then also, I sort of throw in there that we need to change from being reactive to proactive.
Raghavan Chellappan 33:38
So absolutely, you actually nailed it. The head, okay, what you're saying, like being more proactive, definitely helps see a reaction, right. If somebody comes on, like, for example, I'm on the road. And yeah, it just comes on, like, say something, and if I react, or say something back, it's only going to make the problem grow and worsen things. If you take a step back, and then yeah, you cannot do it every time, this is like human nature, right? We are not we are reactive by nature. If, for example, if a hammer falls down, or if you see something, immediately react to move away, you don't see that heads going to fall on something, and it's going to break our splatter the crack. You don't initially think; first, you want to like protect that, right? Like that kind of so if you're proactive. You can think that Hey, no, I can move you and pull the class back.
Debbie Reynolds 34:37
I like to say, you know, a lot of these, especially social media, a lot of their trickery in a way psychological, right? So they want to get you excited to sign up and join in, but the harm, so you get an immediate gratification right from doing, But then the harm is delayed. It's like down the line somewhere. So you're getting that immediate gratification without really contemplating down the line how that's gonna impact you.
Raghavan Chellappan 35:12
True, you're absolutely right.
What is our society willing to pay for good privacy and a secured environment?
Debbie Reynolds 35:47
Right?
Raghavan Chellappan 35:48
So if you look at all these things, right, like people, there is always a cost associated, but how they benefit, not just like one person globally? For me, right? The question you asked, right? Why I said, like, in an individual should ask questions. And you should make sure that like, you get like satisfactory answers before providing your information as people are going to connect with others, it could be your kids, it could be anybody else. So all this information is going to tie you to somebody else. Right? And how they use it, you might not like want to cause any problems or issues for others, but something happens, or somebody has done any shoes or had issues, then it's going to impact not only you, it's going to impact others—right friends. So, everybody, that's what likes social media, right? Like what they are, you know, it's a game, right? It is always a game, and how you are interpreting and how you interact matters. LinkedIn, for example, is a good platform. But how we are using it, you and I, we don't talk like anything that is too touchy. And it's not really relevant. We try to stick to our topics, and then we make it a good healthy conversation. That's right. And we, nobody asked me, Hey, give me your personal information. Or let me I'm sure you also get this. Like, they'll be like, at least I get, like 40 to 50 requests on a regular basis. Sometimes, like I don't really accept, it's not to just say that like, Hey, no, I don't like them or whatever work they're doing because I don't have a direct personal connection. Right? And either to a subject topic or anything. So I'm going to be careful. Because once you accept, right, like, you can go and see other people's connections, right? You're also opening the doors, like you pointed out, right? You're opening doors. You have to think that like, hey, you know, yes, Debbie is my connection. But am I really doing the right thing? By sharing her information without checking with her? Right? Yeah, these are all the things, right? Like platforms, what happens is they have hooks.
Debbie Reynolds 38:07
That's true.
Raghavan Chellappan 38:08
And it's technical. It's nothing wrong. They're just like making the networking and connections and more interactive. And how we use it matters.
Debbie Reynolds 38:18
That's true. Right? Very true. Well, before we end, this is a great conversation to probably continue this for a while. Before we and if it was the world, according to Raghavan, what would you want to see data privacy either in the US or in the world,
Raghavan Chellappan 38:41
I would say policymakers should carefully consider how all these rights come together and not create more friction. It could be between continents, across the board. In this current day and age, technology has definitely helped in connecting with a lot of good people. At the same time, there are bad actors. We cannot like to avoid them. That's like that's human humanity in place. So for me, I would like to see that bring there is a need for a systemic change. And why protecting our bytes becomes critical is the game, and we all have to work together to bring that change. We have a foundation. You're not saying that like we lacked foundation. There is a foundation, but the foundation has got to be made a little bit stronger. That's right. And that only happens when people come together. You're united. You're stronger by my parents always like daughters, okay, using your fist. Yeah, it is more powerful, and then you're bringing all your five fingers together. But if you use that wisely, then you're going to be successful, and you're benefiting not only you, everybody.
Debbie Reynolds 40:04
Excellent,
Raghavan Chellappan 40:05
I would. I would just kind of leaves it with that.
Debbie Reynolds 40:07
That's an excellent answer. I really liked it. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. I really love this conversation. I think we're very like-minded. And I liked the way that you described it with really good examples. So, you know, I'm glad that you're, you know, we have smart people like you that are thinking about these topics, because it's very important. So I'm happy to share this content with people. So thank you very much,
Raghavan Chellappan 40:35
Debbie. I really enjoy the conversation. I know we could have touched on several things. I have like a Murat. Thanks. Okay. But like, innovation is one thing key. I really want to like touch. Maybe we can have a follow-up at some point.
Debbie Reynolds 40:51
Oh, absolutely.
Raghavan Chellappan 40:52
And why innovation is good. But at the same time, people have to understand the impacts.
Debbie Reynolds 41:00
That's true. Very true. So thank you so much again, and we'll talk soon. Okay.
Raghavan Chellappan 41:06
Thank you for being really appreciated. We have a wonderful day. We'll definitely like to be in touch, at least on LinkedIn, shooting messages back and forth.
Debbie Reynolds 41:14
That's true. Thank you so much. Have a good day.
